I am 2nd in command at a small company, which includes HR. The owner can be a hot head. There was a meeting that upset several employees yesterday and they came to me. I tried to let him know what some of the issues were and he went off. I was cursed at in externally fowl language, told that I was failing at my job, told I was telling him he was failing at his job and I was wrong about it. The entire office heard everything. The employees were crying uncontrollably. I was demanded to clean up after people in a disgusting manner. Everything calmed down a bit at this point. I plan on going into his office and telling him he can never speak to me that way again or I will immediately walk out the door and never return. Is this the proper response to this situation? I've been looking for something already since problems like this arise all the time, but I have never been verbally assaulted like this in my entire life. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Again, it is a very small office.
I agree. But for yourself, do so with dignity and pride, showing him that you're the better person (I did that years ago and it felt great). Write up a very formal beautifully formatted letter of resignation, deliver it calmly, and try to stick it out for those two weeks. If he goes after you again, smile and instruct him to please not address you in that manner. If he's so out of control that you can't stick it out, document and solicit witnesses. That way you'll have the letter and witness statements in your pocket for unemployment and future job interviews. A decent employer will recognize your value in doing the right thing. Best wishes.
I am with Stanton, DEFINITELY. The negative is already there.Please protect yourself and your good work ethic and GO. You have to stay strong and true to yourself and don't let that get destroyed! That right there is something you cannot control, it WILL control you.BELIEVE ME, I've been in the smack dab middle of it. Don't waste your efforts on something that is already in place. Find your way fast to where your value will be valued! It probably won't walk into your front door, but get yourself in that mindset because it's time to GO!
If this happens again you should stand up for yourself right then. He diminished you in the eyes of your subordinates when he spoke to you like that loudly enough for them to hear. You should all look into workplace harassment protection options and hostile work environment options. He does not belong in his position and apparently knows it and sees you as a threat
At no moment superiors are entitled to abuse subordinates. Write a own report for you, with date and time. Send that person an email asking why of the outburst. Probably you will not get an answer if you are dealing with an arrogant, or inconsiderate individual. Anyway, keep the email in a specific folder, do not delete it. For future references. In the email you should ask for an apology definitely. Hope everything get better. There is no need to walk out. Sometimes, people act out of rage of frustration, which is not acceptable. However, it happens. That persons owes you an apology. Have a great day and best wishes
It's up to you. He should not be talking to you or anyone in that manner! He feels that he can do what he wants because he's the owner. Find another job first then leave once it's obtained. No need for a 2week courtesy. If he's like the hot head you say.
Katie that is a terrible situation and you should never be treated like that. If you have a husband that works and can afford to quit then do it now but if you are single and need a job then find another job before you quit. I have been out of work for 30 months and I can't find a job. Their are to many people out of work now to quit a job until you have a new job if you have to work.
Deena I am not assuming he is the breadwinner. I just don't want to see her quit her job and have no money coming in. Jobs are hard to find now I have been out of work for 30 months and lost everything I had. I am close to living on the streets and I don't want to see anybody else go through what I have gone through!!!
Mike, valid point. I apologize for my assumption. I've seen too many sexist remarks on this site including a few 'call me babe' remarks. Hit me up on LinkedIn. I'll see if I can help you. I have an unbelievable network. I try to reach out to people who are polite in responding to me. LinkedIn is free to join if you aren't already a member. Best of luck to you. If you want my help, I'm willing to introduce you to someone in a position to help you with a job.
Document, document, document. Before you do anything rash, first handle your HR responsibilities. In the end, this will leave you ahead of the pack should something legal result in your boss' inappropriate actions. Be specific. and detailed. Stay away from words like
hot head but rather describe the actions such as yelling loudly or using obscene language. Once you've got your documentation in order, DO send him a separate email describing how his actions made you feel and the impact they had on the staff.
In the end, you probably cannot change this leopard's spots, so dust off your resume and update it with all your skills and get ready to for bigger and better things. How you handle this situation can really impact your future growth opportunities. Place yourself in a position for betterment.
Best to you,
Very good advice Diana. It is important Katie that you put some distance (emotionally) from the situation and try to deal with it objectively. If I remember you also mentioned that your boss had mistreated other employees who work at the company as well. They are watching the way that you handle this situation. Since you are the 2nd in command, it is important that you demonstrate the appropriate way to handle this as an HR professional. I am not saying that you should stay at the company, I think you should be looking for your next and better opportunity, but in the meantime handle this situation through documentation.
Keep in mind that the employees who were abused may want to walk away, but are not in a situation financially to do so. As long as you are there try to develop strategies in which you can inform the boss of areas that are inappropriate in dealing with employees, including you. I would also let him know that you expect an apology. It does not sound like you will get one from the way that you described your boss. However, you should go on record that you will not tolerate future behavior in this manner and you do not expect employees to take such behavior either.
It sounds like your boss is a bully. He may have a lot on his mind and be under tremendous pressure. I get that...but he should understand that neither you nor any employee is his punching bag during this time. I would dismiss myself when you see this behavior emerging and let him know that you will resume the discussion when things are not as emotionally charged.
I once had a Job where my boss yelled and threatened to fire me every day. A virtual nightmare since it was always in front of the other employees.
I was the highest earning salesman on the job, I knew it and so did he. I simply got numb to it since I knew I was invaluable and that he would never fire his best revenue generator.
Then one day he fired off at one of my customers and after the customer told his boss, he was fired.
Your boss is the owner and will never change. If the money is good, just ignore his rage and go about being an excellent employee.
In the mean time, look for another job, its easier to fine work when you are working.
By ignoring his rage, he will look foolish, and the other employees will take your side. When you leave most of the employees will leave with you and he will be screwed.
Some times, in this case, the employee needs to protect themselves, yes, it's difficult to
just go about and ignore. Your advice tho is definitely CORRECT! It's very hard if you value your own self and skills to do that. I will not surround myself in that much conflict and hostile work environment.Ive encountered that only once in my 27 year career, and it was RECENT. Seems the trend. I'm the hot head and will not put up with that from ANYONE. So I appreciate your point, and wanted throw my spin in and help ANYONE out here. I was a victim of that type mess, and I'm now jobless and overqualified everywhere. Thank you for your words and view.I wish I had your mentality! That is a very good quality you have.
Sounds like my small office. Look for a job, plan your exit, don't expect someone like that will ever apologize. It won't change anything anyway. Don't leave without something lined up. It's easier to get a job while you're employed than when you're not. Do not step out on faith unless you enjoy answering why you quit in every interview. How do you tell the interviewer that your boss is/was a complete jerk (that's using nice words) without badmouthing the company? You can't. Or you look like a drama queen who can't stand correction (not true, of course, but that's how it will look if you're nice/polite about why you left). He's a jerk, you know it, time to leave. End of story. Good luck.
I LIKE HOW YOU SAID THAT.....I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE WORD. small offices r hard when stuff like that happens. First because they are usually great places to work with all the employees being so close and vital to each others job functions..But, I have found that the people who own these places usually are JERKS....thats usially why they pay so well. But again....plan it dont just have a knee jerk reaction because it could take a while to find something else...Get a job BEFORE YOU LEAVE..and if its somewhere you spent alot of years...you SHOULD give notice..otherwise where will you explain all those years went on a resume or if asked during a interview cuz if you just bail...this hot head mite harbour resentment and NEVER give you a good ref.inspite of all your years of loyal service. GOOD LUCK
Leave ASAP, and urge your co-workers to do the same. It does not appear Mr. Hothead is going to fix his anger issues, and he already crossed the line with that sort of abuse. He may be the owner, but he does not have the right to abuse people. Let him run the place by himself. If the owner is not smart enough to know his employees are what allow him to make money with his company, then he needs to see it go under and experience it the hard way. That does not help you and the other employees earn a paycheck, but in the long run, it is not healthy to work in an environment like this, and perhaps better to get on to the next thing.
A CALM answer turneth away strife...In other words , fight fire with water! ! It's not what u say it's HOW u say it ..... most hotheads response TO pain is anger which is not an excuse but I used to be a hott head and I'm still working on it.. so with that being said ,I strongly suggest prayer 1ST (A LOT)and to approach your boss in a calm, loving and forgiving manner even though this is very difficult , things will definitely work out in your favor. Express your feelings in a peaceful and private setting as well as listen to the other parties point of view... if things seem to escalate ,respond calmly and lovingly if it's not working out ,then end the conversation on a positive note. Have self control & be the bigger person in that situation .Finally ,the best time to find a job is when you have one but never make decisions while angry .Document everything that transpires , dot your i's & cross you t's .Also ,witness statements would help ....it's a test...Luv is the key & God is Love ..U can't lose....SELAH !!!
Katie there's two ways you can handle this. One: Let him know that this type of disrespect is not going to be allowed. Let him know that you are there to do a job in which you do very well. Let him know that it's his job to listen to his employees especially if what they are taking him can improve his business. Happy employees will produce great work. Second: If he can't comply with either of that and continues the disrespect, then you pack up your desk and call it quits. Oh there's third. Take this to a labor lawyer and get the other employees to back you up.
Since everything seemed to calm down a bit ask him for a calm sit down. Explain to him how he undermined your authority over everyone else.
They do not regard you like they did before and they regard him even less. try to convince him that it is in his best interest that all the employees at least respect each other , you and him or the company will not survive. He needs to address the entire staff and explain his actions or his small company is doomed.
Do you really want to stay at that job?" Life is too short to not enjoy a job. Think about finding a new job. Leave on good terms with your boss. He sounds like he has trouble with advice and constructive criticism. It's time for you to start looking around for another job. If you can afford it, my advice is to quit as soon as you can! What do you really want to do? I had bosses whose egos were too fragile for constructive criticism and I had to get out a/a/s/p after I tried to help them b/c they wanted to get rid of me.
Turn this Business Owner in to the Better Business Buero for carrying Himself in unprofessional Manner and being very Disrespectful toward You and every person that had to endur this Mans behavior. Make that Your first step before taking any other action. Don't Quit Your Job. Be smarter than that
Document everything you can remember. Ask your employees for witness material. Pack up your office and go into the Boss's office and tell him he never speak to you like that again. If he fires you, walk out the door---Unemployment is waiting. But tell him he's got a lawsuit coming --
Hostile Work Environment. And if you quit, again, take all documentation with you, yell out
Who's with me?!?!?!? And get an attorney. I don't care if the company has 3 workers or 3,000,000. In a job environment, no one deserves to be treated like that. PERIOD.
Every one SHOULD ONLY work where they are appreciated and respected. They are 1000l jobs for ppl who wish to work. Don't allow any evil to pin you anywhere you don't feel happy. This is the only life live it happily it's your time use it well. You are smart than the word, you are in command with power and authority given by GOD. so trust yourself and move to comfort.
They are 1000l jobs for ppl who wish to work. Hahahaha! How funny you are! Clearly, either there are NOT 1000 jobs for (every) person that wants to work, or else there are a shipload of people that frequent this forum that do not want to work.
Unless, of course, your words
... 1000 jobs for ppl who wish to work mean that there are only 1000 jobs for the tens of thousands that wish to work, which is entirely possible.
I saw on TV recently that in a small Southern town, 50 new factory positions were available, and 3000 people applied. That makes 600 people per job opening, not 600 openings per job seeker.
I would make sure you document this event. Make sure you detail what occurred, date, time etc along with ant witnesses. I then would send your boss an email asking him to meet with you regarding this incident. At the meeting be calm and stress your importance to the organization and that his actions were inappropriate and you would like an apology. If you do not get an apology or his bad behavior continues I would look to get out. In your position, second in command, I would give at least a two week notice but 30 days would be more appropriate if you can. You do not want to burn any bridges by just walking out.
Take a sick day off tomorrow and figure it out. No need to immediately sort this out or give him an ultimatum. Every action has a response - avoid co-opting other employees to leave or quit immediately. If it was me, I would make an exit plan and work around this issue for a little more time. That is, IF it isn't so painful that you need to be gone right away. Maybe, given the time to sleep on it, his best self will prevail and he will apologize.
Well I would if it was me in that situation. I will be putting job applications else where made sure I had the job then walked into his office and tell him exactly what you stated you should NEVER be treated like that don't care if you own the company or not you don't treat your 22nd in command like that and especially not in front of other employees. You have grounds for hostle working environment suit. An witnesses to back it up.
I study why companies thrive and fail over the short and long term, you know your capabilities and know how a business should run however in the presence of sole proprietor or owner with a thin skin is a problem this was a demonstrated abusive scenario.
My advice is to leave this employment the situation will not improve collect your endorsements from co workers and business contacts and find employment elsewhere.
Several years ago I worked for a small construction office as the Office Manager/Accountant and was the only female there. As many of you may know the language tends to be very colorful, to say the least, and the owner tended to shout obscenities at the crew when he was stressed about a project. For the most part, the men were respectful towards me, and I just shut my ‘ears’ when they were having their heated discussions. However, one day the owner found an error in something I did (I am only human), and started a tirade on me. It was towards the end of the day, so after he finished, I calmly shut down my station, gathered my belongings and left the office. The next morning, I arrived at the office early (the owner was usually the first person to arrive) to speak with him. I calmly told him that “his behavior towards me yesterday was unacceptable, no one…not even my husband…has the right to speak to me like that and if he ever did it again, it would be my last day working for him.” His response was to apologize, and this never happened again. I worked for him another two years.
I always feel the best approach is to honest and state your grievances as they occur, this is especially true when working in a small office.
Katie I worked at Wall street firms for a long time and unfortunately this kind of behavior was tolerated so I learned to stay focused on my work and goals and ignore it. Whe someone has outbursts like this it's not about you, he clearly has a problem. Don't take it personaaly, but start (quietly) planning an exit strategy. This is not to say I am condoning his behavior in any way but sometimes you need to adapt to survive especially when there are still so many people competing for jobs and willing to fill your shoes. Look at it this way, walking off, while it may give you immediate satification and send a message to this clod, unfortunately, has financial and other repercussions (re: waiving unemployment) and do you really want to have to explain this on an interview? I'm also not sure confronting someone like this actually accomplishes anything and if you tell him you will leave he might start looking for your replacement. I think your best bet is to maintain your composure and look for something else. Leaving him in the lurch without warning is the best revenge.
quit .. no matter wHat .. when a person don't appreciate your work .. then quit .. or you can calm down .. take a breathe an talk to him.. I know is sound like I'm on his side .. but no ..something they realize there mistake . Now if he don't realize his mistake .. then it's time to leave the company ...
No, don't walk out. Find some way to decompress. Even look for another job, but remember that it is generally better to have a job while job searching than not having a job. Maybe even organize your workers but don't just walk out. At least give notice and explain why. Your ability to work through a difficult and trying situation will say a lot about you as far as potential employers are concerned.
The knee jerk responsce would be yes, after telling him exactly what you feel about him.
The Businessman of today still seems that behavior is ok. In any position you have to put personal emotion out of it. Obviously the owner does not. Unfortunately today as a women in business you have to tolerate some of this behavior to play in their areana. Still a uphill battle to get your foot in the door. Yes women have come along way to be able to run, create, and manage large and small companies. The staff looks for you to help in this matter and are crying because it seems hopeless. If you need thos job and is this would be a great atepping stone for you, hold your tounge and carry on. Is he right , of course not. But its his business and he will not change hoa views for you. Only thing if he has a legal department have them explain what can happen if he does not tame the beast. Money talks a lot for men like this. Just put it dollars and cents that by agressive behavior is considered work place harrasment.
Well Katie he's lucky I Dont work there.people like that need a foot up their a....... So here's the deal nobody deserves being talked down to.not even the lowest of person on the pole.I would tell him in a calm matter Dont ever talk to me like that again.of course I'm telling you to say it like that.for me I probably wouldvd grabbed him by his tie and pulled upwards a bit.and probably included a few words like you little prick.gotten line Dont put up with that.
I would write down all the reasons why you are quiting and write down how you feel and how he made you feel and hand him the letter and quit. Go and file EEOC form, you had no choice but leave after being verbally put down ,humiliated ,disrespected and harassed and felt uncomfortable and intolerable . Move forward I'm sure you will find a better place to work and don't need to take anybody's attitude and crap, you have to respect yourself and love yourself otherwise no one will respect you, not to mention the employees will never look at you the same .
This manner of behavior is unacceptable in the work place or everyday life for that matter. What I recommend that you do immediately is document the day, date and time this matter took place, while it is still fresh in your mind. This is why labor laws exist in this country because of individuals that abuse their authority in such a manner. If you are a fighter, I recommend that you go outside of the company and report this to the EEOC and find out if you have a case against the employer for allowing this manner of conduct to be displayed. Of course, that is if the HR manager is aware of his actions. I also suggest that you find out if any of these employees will speak up on your behalf with a representative from the EEOC. Don't go by their word, get it in writing, along with signatures. This can be tricky because most people do not know their rights as employees and can back out at the last minute. If this happened the way you have stated and the employees are willing to back you, go for it. Just know that you will have a fight on your hands and you have to weather the storm. I know from personal experience and I came out on top when all was all was said and done. It was a major since of accomplishment for me, once the smoke cleared and the dust settled and I was the one standing. I don't think quitting is the answer. What happens if you are faced with this same situation with another employer, once you quit this job? Running gets easier each time,, you have to take a stand sooner or later. If anyone chooses to retaliate against any of the employees after a formal complaint has been made with the EEOC, that will only work in the favor of you and the employee. Document what was stated word for word and do not omit any of the vulgarities that he used, no matter how strong the language was. If you do not take a stand now, it will happen again because it is quite obvious he is not leading by example when it comes to his authority. Document, document, document and make the printer your friend. Once you document this in the computer, send it to your personal email address for your records as well. Give it some thought and you make the final decision.
You've got plenty of witnesses. But it wont do you any good since hes the boss/owner and answers to no one. Maybe you should call the cops and complain about his emotionally abusive behavior and that you are concerned that he is on drugs and there are employees crying and scared. Then you all can tell their sides of the story and the witnesses can corroborate and confirm both sides statements and then he might hafta submit to a drug test because of his suspect behavior unless he admits to having anger mgmt. issues which I doubt he will cop too. jI think having to go through that kind of experience with publ.ic authorities may change his whole tune and mayt humble him. I doubt that because he sounds like a pretty stupid jackass. And to William Agnew's stupid question below about whether you caught a lizard, I have to say this. How would you like it if I took that stupid lizard and smacked it up side your head? Stupid idiot.
Before making any rational decision, please ask yourself if at this time you will be eligible for unemploymwnt compensation if you should decide to quit. If the answer is No, then look to have a meeting with your boss to resolved this amicably. Now be on the look out for a new employment. If the answer to the question is Yes, and you have a strong case then you can quit and collect unemployment while you search for another position.
Is the individual the owner or hired employee? Is there an agreivence committee you can go to. Obviously this individual feels threatened by you as 2nd in command and they should be reprimanded by the HR or at worst fired. Not a professional manner of action. Condoning an angry animal is never a good idea. Wait til they cool off and approach them in front of the HR for the discussion of inappropriare behavior for a position of authority. All of this of course depends on the companies policy concerning discipline. However, if it's a small company and this is business as usual, I'd find a new more mature company to work for. Then again a good punch in the nose and telling them they would Never speak to you or the staff in that manner again or pack their bags and leave, sounds like a quick fix. :-)
In the position he is in cursing is wrong. If everyone heard him doing that. I would call corporate office and let them know. That next time you well file suit against him . If for any reason you end up getting fired or let go after that file suit. Against them and the guy. You well have a really good case. He is not aloud to use and curse words in his position towards any employee.
Go to him tell him that he does not have the right to talk to you like this way and tell him you are his employee not a servant you get paid against your work and services it's not like he gives you salary free of cost.and try to talk to him nicely no need to walk out or kick this job if you don't have another in your hand.stay there and be pain in the ass to him.that's the revenge walking away will make you more down stay there and make him feel bad.
Do Not leave or walk out.... you need to have a private meeting with the owner of the company. Let them know that you are an educate person and under no socumstanses should anyone speak to an employee that way. Stay on your grounds and demands an apology from them. After that be sure to star looking for new employment.
Don't walk out in a haste. Document everything that occurred. Ask for a meeting in a neutral public place so he can't try to humiliate you again. Tell him he undermined you in front of the whole staff and you can no longer be an effective leader. Unless of course he apologizes to you in front of the whole company and admit he was wrong. Continue to look for a new job but start saving hard in case this doesn't work out. This way you have something saved in case you can't find something right away.
Make sure you get witness statements from any and everyone that witnessed this incident, because from the way it sounds, if you go in to his office to confront him, he may fire you. This way, with the witness statements not only will you have substantial evidence for unemployment, but you would have hard evidence for a lawsuit if you felt so inclined. Good luck!
Sorry you had to go through such VERBAL ABUSE. It's up to you if you stay or not, my opinion...LEAVE, Yes he is the owner and will continue to treat employees badly. It seems to me you need this job, or you would of walked out. No One deserves VERBAL abuse in any work place, it brings moral down and. makes everyone question if they should continue employment with such an abusive atmosphere. Your a strong women to stand up for the other employees, however, this company is not a healthy place to work. Weigh your pros and cons...Dig deep in your heart and ask God for help and direction. You can't go wrong by following Jesus. Best of luck to you and know this will pass.
You should have a conversation with him but when you start the conversation let him know that you would appreciate him hearing you out before he responds. Be very professional, don't make it personal (even though he did) Tell him how he made you and others feel and what it had done to the workplace.
Depending on his response...positive -- another chance.
.negative ---give your notice
I know exactly what u mean Sweetie unfortunately I been through the same thing but I called him in the office and had a one on one talk.I told him that I needed the same respect as he gets from me that I will not ever be disrespect like that again. .So maybe try having a one and one talk with him and just let him know how u feel...
It is illegal to speak to an employee that way using profanity and making u feel below him..call EEOC equal employment opportunity centers in your area before u leave..once u report him they respond within a week in which he can't fire or ask u to resignation. Write down time and dates keep a log of what he's done once u have reported it they will contact him immediately if u feel uncomfortable or he does it again leave at that point they will make him pay you back pay etc., but make sure you put in your complaint with EEOC before you do anything! Good luck
Go to a labor attorney after you record or have a witness to back you up. Don't just walk out. I had a supervisor talk to me terrible Infront of contractors from Another company. I told him one on one not to speak to me that way again. This was second incident. I accepted his apology, but a year later he started again. His daddy owned the company so he thought he could do whatever he wanted. His anger was over work he was having at his home, not even about the business. After I tollerated his disrespect for over 20 years, he terminated me with out cause. Replaced with someone 20 years younger. I wish I had taken it to an attorney now. I did have employees willing to back me up. I was a very loyal company employee. Don't wait make a move now.
It not what you say but how you say it. When you do say it ask for a meeting. Show him by concrete work scenarios how the employee climate is affected by positive reenforcement. And calmly let him know that you do not condone how he spoke with you. That you don't mind being a sounding board for the leadership team, but as a member of that team, you can not and will not accept that behavior from him or anyone.
Don't give him an ultimatum. When you get a new job walk away gracefully. Professionalism on your part will send a strong message. He will look like the idiot he is.
You need to go to Equal employment opportunity centers in your area. That is illegal he can't speak to you with that type of language nor can he make you guys feel he's working in a hostile equipment. Whatever you do don't quit till you file your case with EEOC. He can't fire you even if he finds out you filed a complaint. Once you file and he continues then quit he will have to compensate you. There's laws in place for people like him to protect employees. Good luck!
If you want to leave, get another job first. Meanwhile, pray for his happiness and treat him with a smile. When people are happy, they treat other people better. When speaking to him, give him your full attention and always, always take notes about every conversation. Keep clear records about every encounter including date and time. Send an email after each encounter confirming what was said and what you understand from the conversation. Good luck. Also, this is abusive behavior and it will only get worse as time goes on, so please be careful. Again, praying for his happiness is the only way to
cure the problem.
Katie, my response is two-fold. If you approached him and he told you about a personal problem, would this change your opinion? Of course, he would have to still apologize to you in front of the entire office; secondly, you approach him and he is still belligerent, his outward behavior would be a sign that it's time to go. Obviously, approach him in the morning and see which way it goes. After managing people for 20 years, life happens and people take their problems out on whoever is closest at the moment...
Do not leave until you have another job. I was in a very similar situation and quit. It has been challenging to find a new position since the day I walked out.
That being said, I have never looked back. The hostile work environment I was subjected to on a daily basis was the awful.
Obviously hot head being the owner feels he can speak to people anyway he wants to- an elitist?. However,, you allowing that behavior only tells hot head that it is alright to talk to you in that manner. Simply put,, its abuse. Is that normal for you to be abused? Yes, you should tell people, even hot head how you should be treated, but if you give him a threat/ultimatum,
that you will walk out,, then you should be prepared to do that. Does this company have a Committee Board-- meaning does Hot Head report to someone-- stakeholders/investors? You could get all of the employees/stakeholders/investors together for a meeting against Hot Head & give him the ultimatum-- shape up or your out, of course you might get fired in the process. I once interviewed for a job at a small company- approx 1000 employees... during the interview I was asked if I had anger issues..... I thought that was odd since I was not responding in that manner so I inquired why I was being asked that. They told me that the Marketing Director who is the manager of the job I was interviewing for had Anger issues & would fly off the handle for no reasons, they wanted to know if I was alright with that type of personality. I said,, so, you 2 ( I met with the owner & his VP) are alright with this persons hostile behavior? Why do you put up with it?....I'm not saying fire the person, but have you suggested counseling, or training for the person to go thru?.... The owner said-- well,, the person is a woman, shes been that way since we hired her. Now I am thinking,, he needed to tell me her gender,, what,, is he being a sexist?... I said, usually the only reason why a woman would have Anger issues is most likely she is not being Validated as a person. Either in her personal life,, or in her professional life she is not being taken seriously or as an EQUAL. The 2 of them sat there like I just told them I found Gold, the looked at each other and then said,, wow we never thought of that. I said,, its a human condition,,, not specific to a gender,, that if someone has Anger Issues it is because they are not being validated in the way they want to be validated, although they probably dont know exactly how to convey that to others, therefore anger & resentment builds up & then when a situation arises it pushes their button & off they go. The owner goes,, wow,, I never thought this might be the case, but now that you mention it, & I can see it with this person, & VP & I will try to do something about that. I went,, thats good coz it would not only help this woman,, but help with reducing a hostile environment with the other employees. Did I get the job--- NOPE........ but I'm thinking HOT HEAD,, is probably under a great deal of stress if he is shouldering the full responsibility of this company. I do not use obscenities normally, but when I do it is because I have reached the end of my rope of frustration. I would suggest that you find out what Hot Heads frustrations are & try to eliminate them. Hot Head might also have unspoken Expectations of others that are not being met which is why they fly off the handle. Unspoken expectations meaning,,, they expect you or others to respond in a certain manner,, and when you do not, it provokes anger in hot head for not being validated, supported or respected. If you don't think your job, or his person is worth the effort,, then you & all the crying employees should find other employment.
A dose of reality, IF you walk out then you may not be able to collect unemployment until you find a new job, report him to the labor department, speak to a lawyer because you may be able to sue him ( the entire office could chip in for the lawyer and make it a class action ) secretly record him if possible, etc, take some action quietly so he does not know.
If he treats people this way being so arrogant, demeaning, a dictator to say the least, the risk is high that he will fire you if you try to present the issues again but if he does, you can collect unemployment and take legal action. Be smarter than him !
I won't say walk out, get out of there because I do not know how that would affect you financially so I take the approach of think and be smarter !
Katie, one thing I would not tolerate at any job is disrespect, no job in my mind is worth humiliation at this level especially in front of staff, this is unacceptable you did nothing wrong in communicating what the issues are in the workplace as the 2nd in command. Your bosses response was totally out of character as a manager and so called leader. What I would suggest is request a one-on-one meeting with your manager if he does not apologize for his outbursts and speak in an acceptable tone, I would hand him my resignation. If he apologizes and can control himself to have a decent conversation then maybe it can work itself out but the way he came across not sure, it will depend on if he is man enough to admit to his faults and handle his business in a respectful way otherwise I would be out the door. Good Luck!!
This person evidently has some mental issues that he refuses to address. He is a bully and is promoting a toxic work environment. I have lived through such an experience. For 5 long years I was bullied, tormented, and scape-goated by 4 poisonous supervisors. I went to their supervisor and was rebuffed. I was forced to go to Employee Assistance counseling. I was retaliated against by the supervisors and transferred to another position where they could
keep a better eye on me (I had been in my position for 9 years). I had one year to go to retirement. I was not about to let them take that away from me. When my retirement date came, I told no one. I packed my things and walked out the door, leaving a letter of resignation on my desk. However, the years of harassment and bullying have greatly affected my mental and emotional health. Don't let that happen to you. Get out. Of course it's always better to get out on good terms but if your health is being affected, do whatever you have to do to get out before your life is destroyed like mine is.
The best to do is never stoop to the level shown to you.Take it on the stride as it"s part of the more responsible and sincere one's to get such treatment.The Best Manager always absorbs the brunt and never pass it down or try to show weakness of reacting sharply.I have got very bad experiences but everytime I shown that Iam stronger and make the wrongdoer feel small in comparison.Take your time to find a better environment to work .Meanwhile show your grit and greatness to forgive his weak actions which ultimately make him be ashamed though inwardly only.Time heals everything and show your strength by getting a better Job and then leave with graceYou will succeed .God bless you.
Don't run , stand up because when you leave he or she will find another punching bag. I'd let the boss know how I feel and I'd make sure the others heard me stand up for myself and maybe give them a back bone to do the same. band together and let this dictator know where you stand.
Your telling him that will do no good.
He apparently cannot control his behavior. Yes a rational boss would think twice about losing his number two person because of his tantrums, but these people have no concept of reason or acceptable conduct. Don't feed into his behavior by trying to handle it sanely, it is a capitol mistake to try to reason with an unreasonable person.
Obviously you will eventually leave, but don't make the mistake of trying to reason with this guy. Look around for another job as much as you can but be aware if he succeeds in making you walk you will probably lose out on an unemployment claim. I would just hang in there until I had another job lined up, and if he loses it totally and fires you then you will get unemployment, under these circumstances.
But in no case should you argue or contend with him. Yes I know others are upset but your just becoming the lightning rod won't change anything with regards to that, and will just hurt you. One mistake you did make was to confront him after he had this argument/meeting with others, he was paranoid enough to then consider you the enemy too.
You SHOULD have just waited until he came to you, hopefully when he calmed down. Your jumping into the fight just focused the temper on you.
If you can't
defend the crying employees, and apparently you cannot, that move exacerbated the problem. Just kick back until you get better job, and remember, a matador defeats the charging bull by sidestepping, not confronting, it.
I didn't have time to read all the responses, so don't know if someone offered this up. Saw a similar situation at work with a small but growing IP firm, the 2nd in command who ran the company and was a college roommate/friend while the owner rain made (sorry about that made-up word, but you get the picture) asked for a part of the company and was promptly rejected. So he TOOK the company from the owner by walking out with all the accounts and workers, now HE is the company, the old owner is just a shell of his former self. This, and your situation, is tailor-made for Rule #2, if the owner is an asshole, walk away with all the IP and either go to work for competitors or start your own business! You should be collecting all the IP and info you can to take that business away from him, as well as all his workers, they would leave in a heartbeat with you! You don't owe this shithead anything so take what is yours and may it pay for YOU!
Good day Ms. Katie;
And I myself praise your since so far YOU have been the ADULT in the conversation. My sincere advice is for you to continue to be the CALM during the storm. Nothing is gained by allowing HIM to push your buttons and allowing HIM to upset you to the point where YOU lower your standards of CALMNESS. I realize that this is a difficult situation since
I MYSELF have from time to time during the past 40 years in the workforce have had to deal with difficult people. And some of them can be as equally arrogant as the person whom you describe. As others may note; I suggest that you continue to seek better employment elsewhere. Without allowing that arrogant person to get the best of you. I am very confident that you being the great associate whom you are will have no problem finding a much better place in which you will indeed enjoy. And have the great place in which you yourself will be able to continue to provide great work and services for your coworkers and clients as well. So hang in there, stay strong, stay empowered, and soon you will be out of that place and on to much better things in a much better place of employment that you indeed deserve. - Stephen
I guess it's his company and he can run it into the ground if he wants. Short of a possible hostile work environment (cursing) there probably isn't much to stop him. I would get in position to jump ship and ask for a one on one to see if he has changed his tone and pledged to keep it that way. If he repents and you feel he is sincere stay as jobs are hard to find. If not, gather your dignity and tell him to put his company where the sun don't shine. Honestly there is more than this company eating at this guy and I doubt it if he will open up to you. Sorry I wish I could give you some better words of encouragement but I just don't see it. Best of Luck!
I would get calm from the arguement. Then type him a letter explaining how wrong the behavior was for a work environment. That you understand him being upset. Because you want to not get him to put up a defensive side. So take the high road and just explain you were hurt and felt so disrespected. Not only by him talking to you that way but, also in front of staff. It was disrespectful and humiliating. I think you get the just. Prayers for your work environment
I suggest you get out of this job. You do not deserve to be treated this way. We only have one life down here and we should not have to go to work every day and be abused. It will affect you in the end if you continue to put up with it. You could develop panic attacks or an anxiety disorder. I speak from experience. In the end it will come to a head one way or the other. It is impossible to work with these types of people and you cannot reason with them. They are narcissistic, egotistical people who never listen or think they are wrong, so you will waste your time trying to talk to him, unfortunately. Document everything. It is possible you can draw unemployment due to the working conditions. Better yet, just let him terminate you so you can draw it while you look for something else that is more suitable and less stressful. I usually end up working for these people because I am very quiet and nice and people think they can dump on me. Trust me you will be able to get another job even if they let you go. I have always been able to get another job. Take some time for yourself. Don't rush into a new job right away because you may rebound. Good luck.
I was dealing with a similar issue but nothing to this degree . You should never allow anyone to cross the line with you like this . Once they feel this behavior is acceptable it will only continue or get worse. If there is someone you could speak with in HR do it ASAP ... No one has the right to curse you out .. If you had done this they would have fired you ... Respect goes both ways... Judging from what you have said it doesn't even sound like a fight worth fighting ... Find a professional organization where people KNOW and UNDERSTAND that this is not acceptable ... When you stay in an environment like this for too long you become a victim ... It almost sounds like a bad relationship . You feel like the guilty one... You also don't want to carry this baggage of such a bad experience to another job ... LEAVE ......
Katie .... Sounds like to me, the store owner hasn't a clue about how to manage people. If I were in your position, as soon as I have confirmed another job l would quietly submit my reignation letter and leave the premises. No need for a discussion, because apparently he has no real interest in building his people so they can build the business. Wishing you the Best .. VKL
I have worked in a small company before. Because it is small, employees think of you more like family. So when you have to deliver news to them, they do share more emotions and they do comfort you in a family or friendship manner. From what you stated, you should have stuck to what the boss wanted and not gone and complained about what the employees said. There is no room for friends in the workplace when your in management. I'm not saying that your boss was right for making you out to be a bad person. I think that if you really enjoy your job that you should go and have a one on one conversation with your boss in a day or 2. Sometimes people need cooling off periods. Then they realize what they have done. Talk to him if he doesn't listen, then it's not worth staying.
Find a new job and quit. Always find new employment before quitting for several reasons. First you are more marketable while you are still employed It's human nature for a new employer to think more highly of someone he has to pursue than an unemployed person.
Second it may take a lot longer to make a good new job connection than you anticipate.
Dorothy - read the post, she hasn't left yet.
But, I agree. No one should have to be subjected to such treatment. But who is she going to tell? HR? she is HR. Tell her supervisor? She's second in command which means her supervisor is the very lunatic that thinks there is nothing wrong with his behavior.
I'm not saying don't confront him, but if you do be prepared to lose your job.
The situation is bad and there is no safety net for her.
There are too many people in leadership positions who do not understand the role of a leader. People often behave the way they do because they have been allowed to do so.
As already mentioned, you're an asset to that office and based on your assessment of that situation, you're better equipped professionally to lead the employees there.
My advise is to let him know that you didn't appreciate how he spoke to you. He need to know that even if you decide not to stay. If you decide to stay, he has some repairing to do with the staff who observed his behavior.
I was in second command at my job before retiring. She often said things that were inappropriate. I took it upon myself to involve the Director of the Director of Human Resources. She graciously honored my request to mediate as the two of us discussed our differences. Needless to say, our working relationship improved. So, consider having someone sit in with you when and if you decide to meet with him. His behavior can create a hostile working environment and he needs to know this.
O wow, sounds like maybe you should be looking for something else ASAP! Although, following company guidelines, speak to him again, calmly let him know that was completely unacceptable, you have lost the utmost respect for him, and to, from now on, have a third party as a witness to these conversations, or even his boss, and express that because of this outburst and name calling, you are forced to be a little more professional than he is, and reach out to higher authority. I really hope this will help and give you a little piece of mind.
I feel for you, and am so sorry that you were verbally abused by your boss. If it were me, I would be out of there. I personally believe that subjecting myself to a hostile work environment is totally unacceptable, especially if you are in a leadership position. If you stay you are sending a silent message to the rest of the team that you support the 'hot head' in charge. I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but allowing someome to bully you or others in a workplace is in no way ok, and if people were literally crying uncontrollably after this verbal assault, it is clearly not a healthy place to be. Wishing you the strength and clarity to make the best decision.
I recently went through something similar. I suggest you get out of that toxic environment. If you don't intend to just leave.... then I suggest you just keep looking and grin and bear it until you find something else. Otherwise you may be on the unemployment line with me. If your skills are inadequate..... and you are fired..... which is sounds like he implies (not that it is true)..... you can still possibly get unemployment . But if you go in and are belligerent, you can be dismissed for misconduct and then you won't qualify for unemployment. I went through 4 months of verbal abuse from my former employer. He was unrealistic in his expectations as he expected employees to use their personal time to advance his company. Everyone in the office knew and agreed he was difficult to work with. He accused me of lying to him about jury duty. He belittled employees in front of other employees rather than bringing them for discussions in private. He would verbally abuse the guys as well. He had cameras and microphones everywhere and would call and fuss if an employee spent more than 2 minutes in the toilet without clicking out. And frankly, I think he did some unethical things regarding paying our over seas invoices. He used foul language more than one time screaming at people, calling them stupid and unmotivated. So I have been where you are. Just hang in there. It is easier to find a job when you have a job. I will keep you in my prayers.
Tell him, he can't handle this office alone and you don't know who you'll get. Talk to me nicely so we can have the work done peaceably. Tell him. Let's put these words behind us so we can keep this company going. Pray for a measure of respect from him. Try. That's the best you can ask for. I hope you can continue if that's what you want.
Hi Katie Z - I'll add my 2 cents worth if it will help. Abusers like to blame others for their own failings rather than look for a solution to why they failed. I recommend you immediately document what happened. Get each employee to document what happened. See an employment attorney to find out your options. No one has the right to verbally abuse any co-worker, employee, etc. Your boss has some really bad anger issues and I've seen this before. But, you need to be prepared if you decide to fight this as there is no one but himself to report his indiscretions to but himself, so your leaving just might be the answer for you but not for the rest of your staff unless you all leave as one. It's a terrible situation, especially in a small company with no one above to report his actions to. And a word to the wise...Anger Management Classes don't always help. I used to work, not directly with, a Senior Vice President who was like that and he had been going to anger management classes for over 3 years and he would always
back-slide, as the company like to put it, and continuously gave him chances. I commend you for not going back at him immediately as I would have done - job or no job. If he does it once, he will be comfortable in doing it again and it will only get more abusive. Find out what your options are and make a decision fast. Best of luck.
Before you quit talk to unemployment to see if they will qualify you based on the oppressive, insulting and undermining screaming at you in front of employees. The man has tried to take your dignity away and in the process has upset the proverbial apple-cart of the whole company. He is causing high stress which if you had to deal with this over an extended period of time could very possibly turn your health bad. It is very likely to have increased blood pressure, possible ulcers as well as a whole host of other stress induced illnesses. If you decide to stay you need to go to your doctor and get a baseline health checkup so that if he continues and your health takes a turn for the worse you have your proof with the baseline. This will enable you to sue him for damages to your health both mentally and physically. BTW, his actions towards you in front of the other employees might also make a good law suite. Talk to a lawyer soon. Good luck!
I used to work for a guy who did that. I just started laughing at him and telling him he's a moron, i cleaned up the language a bit for you but you get the jist. He woild get so mad and want to fire me and I was like, thank god...lol. He wasnt actually in the office much so I just kept working and laughing at him. All three of us in the office were quitting on a Friday and he found out and made other arrangements for Monday, he hired two doctors to do my job...just saying. But Monday came around and I get a call sayin please come help me for a dollar more cuz his doctors were nowhere to be found (i think he lied) and he had to go to St. Pete for a PFT part. I agreed I'd help when I got back from talking to my new boss and as soon as I pulled up he met me at the door telling me how late I was and I'm the one who lost the part he had to go pick up. So I just busted out laughing and turned around and headed back to my truck and he starts yelling
what you just gonna leave i thought you was coming to help me and i told him
yeah i was, imagine all that. ...lol.
Girl u good because if that where me I would have told him before hand not to ever talk to me like that . You had every right to do what u did. Me personally I don't think that he didn't like how u where telling about what he was not doing as the head man or what ever he is. I would also call home office on him anyone that's higher then him. If he talking to u like that then most likely he's treating everyone like that. If ur not happy I would find something else cause u don't need all that stress, and negative ENERGY.
Small companies can be tricky to work for especially from the perspective of office politics. I would wait until you have accepted a job offer elsewhere before you quit your current position. However, if it's unbearable and you need to get out then do whatever is best for you. Best of luck.
Thank you for all your responses - quick update. I went into his office at the end of the day. Closed his door and calmly said,
Please don't ever speak to me that way again or I will leave. His response,
Was that about the thing in the conference room? Well, I apologized. I stated,
No, you did not. He argued that he did apologize. Needless to say he NEVER apologized the entire time I was in his office letting him know why there was a problem and how we needed to solve it. He comment,
Well we needed that blow up to try and resolve deep seated issues so we could all move forward. -__- I was also clearing out files from 2009 and prior for shredding. I found an Unemployment Referee document where he did the EXACT same thing to his other Office Manager/2nd in Command. She quit for the same abuse I have received and she received unemployment due to harassment and hostile work environment. I made a copy of this document for my personal file in case it is ever needed to show a pattern of abuse to employees. I'm planning to continue to do my job and support my employees as I believe in their abilities and have been there for them. I will continue searching for a position and have applied to as many locations that fit my qualifications, and I can afford to live off the salary offered. Thank you for all the well wishes.
leave put your resume up on Monster LinkedIn and GlassDoor and leave run don't look back.. for it will make you sick and you will be in worse shape then working there.. Stress has been proved to be the cause to some of our Cancer problems.. things that should not show up for years come fast and hard because of stress.. trust me.. I had breast cancer and was working in Stocks an Bonds.. at 42 years of age.. I quit and people I am 67 this year.. and love this job to bits.. not big or fancy. or important. but will be here I figure until I am 75 yep... go team go... run kiddo run run run...
I agree with Meredith. Leave with dignity. Don't stoop to his level of unprofessionalism!! Not only do you and the other employees deserve to be treated in that manner, you are in a position to set an example for the others. It doesn't matter if you're second in command or the janitor, you all deserve to be treated with respect. Good luck!!
If its a good job, keep it tell him what you think and if he doesnt clean his act up t'ke it above him and get the dude fired, you got witnesses , if you quit he winscause he just gonna replace you but if its louzy pay orr something you can make somewhere ele quik, then you already know the answer, idk but as soon as he started i would have shut him the fuck down but im a man soooo...Yea
See Business Communications textbooks for references to
boss from hell...abusive and he needs to take a business communications course. Essentially, I am saying that the boss hired you to be a manager of human resources...and that includes him. His behaviour was unprofessional and abusive. Production DROPS as a result so Im sure that is an unwanted result. He can be helped to understand the appropriate ways to communicate in business settings.
Hold your ground - without
mutual respect and courtesy any type if relationship breaks down and fails. (Denis Waitlet Social Psycholigiat PhD - was a POW)
I'm sorry I didn't see this thread earlier.
I disagree with the knee jerky response to simply cut and run without a concerted effort to first set some boundaries and try to help this bissue be a more productive employer.
Cooler heads prevail. Don't walk out. Reassess the real problems and bring those items up at a different time when you and the owner calm down. Gather your facts; check your emotions; be firm; and make sure you let your owner know you didn't appreciate the fowl language. Once a second meeting is scheduled, assess the atmosphere and make an unemotional decision. If the decision is to resign, I'd have the letter with you. Present it to the owner with the proper lead time, whether it is 2 weeks or 4 weeks. Be classy. Most companies may let you leave that day with 2 weeks pay. Maybe your owner had a bad day. Maybe he realized he made a mistake and will apologize. Time will tell.
My heart goes out to you, do not stay because of salary or position. You are a grown woman know your value and worth you should not be looked down upon or talked to in such a ill matter. You do have a right as a fellow human being to speak your mind respectively to let this individual know that by no means any circumstance that You should be talk to in a Childish language. Keep your dignity no matter what I will say you deserve better see yourself doing better get a around people that is a inspiration to you. To motivate you to grow the atmosphere is bad there find your way out of it. This is only a sign telling you to move on to better opportunities that await you. Take this as urgency snd action don't settle for less.God bless you on your journey you will succeed.
Katie, after reading your story... I do not think anyone today can curse, & demean another co-worker.....I would seek legal advice........You have have to pick your battles, & this may be one of them...I work pt-time retail, but also have my own Cln'ng Serv..There is a Operation's mgr. who seem's to enjoy being condescending to the more mature gal's....Personally I think it's an insecurity on his part, because myself, & another associate have strong personalities, so it seem's when he gets the chance he shows his not nice behavior....but your 1st in command is totally out of line.....
why quit he can be dealt with legally when small companies can't afford to be sued they don't need the bad rep so they fired that but whole when the company folded I found out they ship him to another department!!!!!!!!!!!!! men do that to women all the time because they know we will cry and quit, than they put their mistress in our place no girl if you like your job and you are good at it put your big girl panties on and file litigation Or Go To the EEOC in your town.
Write him an email talking about what occurred and how you felt. this is to protect you from any back lash. The goal is to get him to admit what he did so u won't have to use witnesses in the event for legal purpose. Or just have on record what happened. U need to document anyway. Because u leave he will definitely defend his nasty behavior. Don't make the transition with you leaving needing him or leaving him with power take your power with u by documenting
I personally think you should not quit, but change the office dynamic and let the upper boss know How you feel about the situation that occured and then if it keeps happening then make a report of it and have the witness sign and date that report of what they heard and felt about the office dynamic. Maybe a outside intensitive training needs to happen. Diversity retraining by internal house representative that way that person can see the office in full swing to understand what are the issues and come up with a proper change in implementing staff.